In an interview recorded last month with Swiss broadcaster RSI, Pope Francis said that Ukraine should demonstrate what he described as the bravery of the "white flag" and engage in negotiations to conclude the war with Russia.

The issue of this interview comes as Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan offered to host a summit between Ukraine and Russia. The offer was presented after a meeting in Istanbul with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky.

While Zelensky claimed he wanted peace, he also stated that he did not want to lose any territory.

Zelensky's own peace plan involves the withdrawal of Russian troops even from Crimea and the restoration of 1991 state borders, conditions which have been ruled out by the Kremlin regarding a potential peace talk.

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In the interview, Francis was queried about his stance on a debate concerning Ukraine's response to the conflict, with one side suggesting surrender due to the inability to resist Russian forces, while the other side argues that capitulation would validate the actions of the stronger party. The interviewer referenced the term "white flag" in posing the question. 

"It is one interpretation, that is true," Francis said in the interview. "But I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates."

Francis further suggested that discussions should be facilitated with the assistance of global actors.

"The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," Francis said.

It is believed to be the first instance of Francis employing phrases like "white flag" or "defeated" when addressing the war in Ukraine, notwithstanding his previous remarks advocating for diplomatic dialogue.

Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni said in a statement that the pope employed the term "white flag" as it was used by the interviewer. He further used it "to indicate a stop to hostilities (and) a truce achieved with the courage of negotiations".

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Last year, the 87-year-old pontiff dispatched a peace envoy, Italian Cardinal Matteo Zuppi, to Kiev, Moscow, and Washington to engage with leaders in those nations.

"One may feel shame," Francis said about negotiating, "but how many dead will it (the war) end up with? (One should) negotiate in time, find a country that can be a mediator," Francis said, mentioning Turkey among the countries that had offered.

"Do not be ashamed of negotiating, before things get worse," said Francis, who has made hundreds of appeals for what he calls "martyred Ukraine". When asked about the potential to personally mediate the conflict, Francis said "I am here".

Elsewhere during the interview, Francis spoke on the war on Gaza, suggesting that "negotiating is never a surrender". But unlike the war in Ukraine, the war in Gaza involves a genocide, an important aspect of the war that the Pope failed to consider.

Pope Francis, pro-Russia?

In August 2023, Ukrainian presidential advisor Mykhailo Podolyak called Pope Francis a "tool of Russian propaganda" who supports the establishment of a "Russian world", after Pope Francis convened with Catholic youth from Russia on August 25, 2023 via teleconference.

During the conference, he reportedly urged them to put in effort for "reconciliation", reminding them to never abandon their great cultural heritage.

Podolyak expressed to the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera: "It seems that the Pope has once again become a tool of Russian propaganda," adding that the pontiff's address was "destructive for modern humanism."  

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